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Dewey
14th April 2010, 10:16 AM
I've got to say after reading this very specific and lengthy list of what you can and can't do on our server my first question is who thought up these rules?Are you actively trying to discourage people from joining our server?

How is a pubbie going to know, digest and abide by all these rules?

My guess is they will soon get hacked off (or kicked by our admins for not following our rules - understandbly) and leave for a server without all these arbitary limitations that for very good reasons don't exist on any other server.

A lot of these rules are impossible to measure and therefore to accurately and consistently enforce - their definition is ambiguous for example:

The defending players should stay with in a logical distance from either their teams present MCOM station A or B, so to be able to DEFEND the targets.

Define logical? Logical to you might not be to me - its meaningless as is the next rule.

>Players should be able to justify there position on the map at all times.What? Seriously? I'm pretty sure I can justify my position anywhere on the map - as long as I can kill the opposition - that is after all what the game is about.

>When MCOM station's are changing players should wait for the map to re-adjust and allow them to proceed.

Are you saying when you've taken out the a pair of mcom stations you have to wait rather than moving up to the next station?



>Spawn Rushing is considered a Frag-Hunter tactic and is not allowed.



>Spawn Rushing is where players immediately go engage enemy players near their spawn area.

Can't say I've heard of spawn rushing before. Does this mean we are basically saying that when I spawn I can't be shot or killed because the enemy can't attack me?

As the spawn area isn't defined on the maps or in game how are people going to know if they are firing into a spawn area - aren't you basically giving the defenders the option of having the first shot at an attacker (and if they are sniper who can kill you with one shot....) who under these rules cannot shoot until fired upon - is that right?



Defenders are not to go on hunting parties and aggressively eliminate the enemy away from the MCOM stations; defenders can take any defensive route providing it is within the proximity of the MCOM station in rush mode:




Do not stray to far away from the present A and B MCOM station
Protect the MCOM station from the attacking force
When the MCOM has been activated try to defuse

Firstly define proximity of the MCOM station?

Please tell me this is a joke - everyone know the best form of defence is attack - to take a footballing analogy its like asking a team to defend deep in their half - their is 99% of the time only one outcome (as any England fan will tell you) - they will get beaten.

By effectively restricting the defenders movements and therefore their tactics your taking away some of the gameplay and tactical variety - and the fact the attackers know this makes it extremely difficult to defend. Attackers already have the advantage because you don't know which direction or when they are going to attack from and now its even easier because you don't have to watch you or your mates back.

Why can't we just play the game as intended - yes some of the etiquette rules are valid and all players know them even if they don't follow them but some of these rules are too restrictive in my opinion and worse are open to interpretation and abuse by both players and admins.

Furthermore how are you going to let pubbies know and understand these long list of rules?

If they wander onto our server they are quickly going to become frustrated and leave thats if we haven't kicked them before hand for falling foul of our rules.

For these to work I think they need severely rationalising and further discussion and play testing.

Just my take on these rules - I'm concerned our server will soon remain devoid of pubbies which was after all supposed to be a recruitment tool.

v1.0 13/4/2010- by GhostMjr


Server Rules:



No foul or abusive language.
When joining you will be autoassigned to a team if teams are not balanced use the "switch side" command to manually balance teams. An admin will ensure that team balance is maintained throughout the game.
If you need to go AFK please exit to the main menu as there is no spectator option in bc2, or risk being kicked by an admin.

Rush:


No mortar strikes on either attacker or defender spawn site in the first 20 seconds of around.
The defending players should stay with in a logical distance from either their teams present MCOM station A or B, so to be able to DEFEND the targets.
Players should be able to justify there position on the map at all times.
When MCOM station's are changing players should wait for the map to re-adjust and allow them to proceed.

Conquest:


Both the attackers and defenders main objective is to capture flags during this gameplay.
The main objective is to work as a team and essentially hold/defend and capture flags.
This relies on working as a team and holding off the enemy on multiple areas.

Play the objective:


Your objective is NOT to get as many kills as you can but to help your team defend or plant at MCOM stations in RUSH MODE, capture or defend Flagpoints in CONQUEST MODE .
Players not doing so are considered to be Frag-Hunter.
Frag-Hunting is defined as having total disregard for your team and objective at hand and focused on eliminating enemy forces.
Spawn Rushing is considered a Frag-Hunter tactic and is not allowed.
Spawn Rushing is where players immediately go engage enemy players near their spawn area.
Shooting into an enemy spawn point is not allowed as well; however, if the enemy is shooting from their spawn, then they can be engaged.
During squad member spawning killing is a necessary by-product of the game as players are usually unable to tell the difference between a player that has just spawned and one that hasn't.

Attackers:


The role of an attacker is to attack an area of interest i.e. and fulfil their primary in-game objective.
Attackers may use any and all routes available to them to accomplish the mission.

Defender Roles:


Defenders are to defend their objective and its immediate choke-point entryways.
Defenders are not to go on hunting parties and aggressively eliminate the enemy away from the MCOM stations; defenders can take any defensive route providing it is within the proximity of the MCOM station in rush mode:




Do not stray to far away from the present A and B MCOM station
Protect the MCOM station from the attacking force
When the MCOM has been activated try to defuse



The primary purpose of this is to reduce the amount of Frag-Hunting and to maintain consistent team-play.

Team Killing (TKs):


In the heat of battle friendly fire occurs it is a part of life and all online games, however, intentional TKs or excessive TKs are not acceptable behavior on -=[dMw]=- servers.
Excessive TKs will result in a kick/ban.

Grenade spam and appropriate use of suppressive fire:


Random, blind use grenades is prohibited.
Blind grenades are defined as randomly tossing into locations where no threats have been identified or into locations to clear but failing to following the grenade into that location.

Tutonic
14th April 2010, 10:42 AM
My interpretation is that the server rules are there so that DMW players know the standards that are expected of them.

We can't force every random guy who connects to our server to play exactly how we want them to, but we can set an example which will hopefully encourage others to do the same.

FrEnZy
14th April 2010, 11:38 AM
>Players should be able to justify there position on the map at all times.What? Seriously? I'm pretty sure I can justify my position anywhere on the map - as long as I can kill the opposition - that is after all what the game is about.


Ah but that's the thing Dewey, it's not about killing the enemy, it's about completing the objective to secure the win. If that can be best done without firing a shot then so be it.

And imo the rules pretty much boil down to, play as a team, play to complete the objectives, play in a sporting manor.

While I agree that some of the rules are fuzzy and hard to define in black and white terms, I don't see there being many problems if your playing like a member of a tactical gaming community.

Dewey
14th April 2010, 01:37 PM
The fact you've written 'my interpretation' reinforces my concern that these rules are ambigious and open to individual interpretation - which is going to cause problems. How can we enforce rules on others when we aren't clear on them ourselves.


My interpretation is that the server rules are there so that DMW players know the standards that are expected of them.

We can't force every random guy who connects to our server to play exactly how we want them to, but we can set an example which will hopefully encourage others to do the same.

You say we can't force people to play exactly how we want - but surely these rules are saying that is exactly what we are trying to do?

What examples do we set in BC2 that we would like public to use?

I'm not trying to be argumentitive but as far as I can see we talk the talk but don't walk the walk - playwise we don't seem to do anything different to any other server I've been on.

Dewey
14th April 2010, 01:51 PM
I agree with the first two points - though I don't remember saying I didnt... in fact I did mention people seem to ignore the objective myself in my OP.

In theory I agreed with your last point. The point that I made in another thread is in the real world dmw playing BC2 don't play any differently to any other gaming community/clan server. Do you think we do and if so how?

I think we all want the same thing, as a member of dMw I'm looking for something a little more tactical than when I play on any other random server.

I agree that our style of play should encourage pubbies to do the same and hopefully want to join us but to do that needs clearly defined rules that aren't too restrictive and a significant shift in how we play and admin the server.

Frenzy and Tutonic what are your thoughts on the points I've made about the rules - do you think you can admin and play to these rules - do you think they are fair? Do you think they over complicate the game or will add confusion or put people off?




Ah but that's the thing Dewey, it's not about killing the enemy, it's about completing the objective to secure the win. If that can be best done without firing a shot then so be it.

And imo the rules pretty much boil down to, play as a team, play to complete the objectives, play in a sporting manor.

While I agree that some of the rules are fuzzy and hard to define in black and white terms, I don't see there being many problems if your playing like a member of a tactical gaming community.

RizZy
14th April 2010, 02:23 PM
The biggest difference I've noticed between ours & the public server I've been on is spawn camping from the defensive team on the attacking teams spawn - most pubbies I've been on some of the defending team tend to rush the attacking team, I've noticed individuals do it on ours, but there usually asked not to pretty quickly & stop.

T-Bag
14th April 2010, 07:46 PM
Dewey, a Logical distance from the MCOM means that if you can reach it if it's triggered, or see it directly you're bugger all use to your team. On other servers I've seen people run off leaving an MCOM to try and get cheap kills leaving a small number close enough to defend and then a base can be stormed through by say a quad and 30 seconds later lost. That's not in the least bit tactical and what we're trying to avoid.
Yes it can be useful to snipe up a hill, or go a little further out to kill tanks before they become and issue etc, but 90% of people who go wandering are people we don't want ruining the game for the rest of the team. There's not an easy way of wording it, but as far as I'm concerned it's clear.

Justify your position. If you are sniping and your team goes in and arms while you cover, you're more than justified standing there. If you're hanging out with your other 10 sniper buddies you're a waste of space. Again phrasing this definitively is tough, but nobody likes a snipe fest, or a guy who wanders off and does absolutely nothing to help his team, we're trying to avoid this.

Spawn rushing is when you go into the deployment zone after cheap kills. You would airstrike the enemy spawn in the first 20 seconds to get cheap kills in CoD 4 even though it helps your team, going into their zone should be no different. It makes the game less fun and has people run off on their own.

Just like in CoD 4 when we enforce the rules, people know because we'll tell them. I learned by playing, I didn't have to read the rules. If everyone is defending the MCOMS a new player will naturally too, and if they don't a gentle warning will get them to either follow them or leave. The rules are just a frame work with which we can judge if a person is playing our style or not.

Ragnarh
14th April 2010, 11:36 PM
I like to flank attackers , and kill the ones holding back for spawn points and charge cover . I allso like to sneak up on snipers that cover the charge form a distance.

Moving the front up gives the defenders time to respawn after they get killed.

Dewey
15th April 2010, 09:17 AM
Exactly but under these proposals you have to sit within a designated area and wait to be attacked! I just don't understand why we feel it necessary to meddle with game mechanics in this way when they have absolutely no positive impact on tactical play in fact I'd argue the opposite they stifle it.


I like to flank attackers , and kill the ones holding back for spawn points and charge cover . I allso like to sneak up on snipers that cover the charge form a distance.

Moving the front up gives the defenders time to respawn after they get killed.

Benny
15th April 2010, 10:46 AM
Isn't this really easy?

Play as a part of the team, get the job done. That means don't spawn kill and don't camp out somewhere for kills.

It's good to have the rules that we expect of ourselves but can we not let the tactical evolve for new guys?

A couple of nights ago, everyone was in one channel. I moved, a couple followed and it got better. As a side note are the in game comms that bad? The TS is a barrier to entry as it is with Arma.

[BIG]magnus
15th April 2010, 10:51 AM
Hi Benny the in game comms have been erratic which is part of the problem getting information over to members of the public. When they work they are not bad and I try to use them alot. Hopefully the next patch will improve things. The comms on some servers seem to be better than others and I am not sure why.

Gibbo
15th April 2010, 03:23 PM
good god dewy likes typing :roflmao:
but the thing is is that dMw have allways had these rules and for some like me a change is confussing :roflmao:
but hopefully if i get a pc i shall be able to see what you mean dewy:P