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View Full Version : dMw Juniors are loud



TwoBad
21st February 2011, 05:49 PM
As the wee ones can get a bit vocal sometime, specially when they're all in the same squad as they were the other day, how about giving them their own channel in TS? That way if they do start getting a little over excited we can ask them to change.
(btw, my two like the idea)

Sn00ks
21st February 2011, 06:18 PM
Seconded!

Blunt
21st February 2011, 06:25 PM
good idea, although they do make me chuckle on occasions

GhostMjr
21st February 2011, 07:20 PM
good idea, although they do make me chuckle on occasions

Personally doing this has its positives and negatives for us but i think we are missing a trick and the bigger picture.

I.e. i don't want them becoming detached from us as a community.

They know me and a couple of other members on first name turns and us regular players enjoy their company.

In all honesty we don't have alot of younger members and we need some newer members with young ideas.

As my old university professor use to say to our class "you guys teach me more than i read from books".

At the end of the day i've been here since 17 i am now old and grey but we haven't had a regular influx of younger members.

Its up to us as a community to decide how we want to grow and if we encourage them to get there friends on too we could have a nice group of potential dmw LAN members when they are old enough.

I am unsure about the dmw tag though and think this needs to be considered by the community leaders.

Although is their an age limit on the tag or is it open to all?

I know the LAN has an age limit.

ArithonUK
21st February 2011, 07:27 PM
I think it is good that you welcome rather than "tolerate" or actively ban younger players. I like playing games like TF2, L4D2 and BFBC2 with my sons, but so many servers are full of foul-mouthed, childish and badly behaved "adults" its difficult to find a place that's there for actual fun.
With other people on Teamspeak with the youngsters, is I think it's preferable, as they can monitor the chat and make sure nobody is saying anything they shouldn't to the kids or each other.

Just my two penneth.

TwoBad
21st February 2011, 07:59 PM
Don't get me wrong guys, i'm by no means saying we should banish them to their own channel never to be heard from again. What i am saying is, on the occasions when they are all on AND their are a good few of us on and they start to get a bit loud, they will have somewhere they can go and continue doing what they do best, being kids.
I have heard them from the other room a couple of time and it has also been mentioned to me by a couple of dMw regulars they the got a bit loud (it was not said with any bad feelings).


I think it is good that you welcome rather than "tolerate" or actively ban younger players. I like playing games like TF2, L4D2 and BFBC2 with my sons, but so many servers are full of foul-mouthed, childish and badly behaved "adults" its difficult to find a place that's there for actual fun.
With other people on Teamspeak with the youngsters, is I think it's preferable, as they can monitor the chat and make sure nobody is saying anything they shouldn't to the kids or each other.
Agreed, but i don't think anyone who is dMw would ever say anything bad to them. If i did they wouldn't be on TS. I'm more worried about the chat window. A month or so ago Poison and I were on with a couple of publics and one started to really mouth off.


Its up to us as a community to decide how we want to grow and if we encourage them to get there friends on too we could have a nice group of potential dmw LAN members when they are old enough.
I'm very happy that i found this community last year and have been made such a welcome member. It's great that the powers that be have given the opportunity for the Juniors, after all this is an adult community when all is said and done. But i do hope the Junior element is encouraged and i know that my two, given the chance, will be here for a very long time!


I am unsure about the dmw tag though and think this needs to be considered by the community leaders.
Although is their an age limit on the tag or is it open to all?
This was agreed and approved by Ninja. Personally i think its a good idea as it clearly identifies them as members to both us and publics.


I know the LAN has an age limit.
Please tell my wife!

Blunt
21st February 2011, 08:06 PM
, how about giving them their own channel in TS? That way if they do start getting a little over excited we can ask them to change.
(btw, my two like the idea)

I was assuming that this would be an option not compulsory.
Personally, if they do start getting on my nerves I would tell em.
Haven't had to yet as Dad steps in to quieten it down.
I don't have a problem with them, but I can see that some would.
As GM and Ari said above, It's a good way to learn how to behave on a server, and it's a safe environment where we all look out for them.

Penfold
21st February 2011, 08:26 PM
I think we need to tread a fine line here.

Yes, we're an open and friendly community but we also expect certain standards from our members. It really doesn't matter if you're 10 or 60. Either you fall in line with us, our gaming standards and our gaming ethos or you don't. If someone's child plays on the server and, say, goes off fraghunting etc then they should (rightly) be pulled up on it. At the end of the day yes it's *everyone's* server but we're not a crèche. It's majority rule and sorry, but if your child needs to be told to pipe down then they should be told. At 7, my children are too young for the server but as and when they come online if they're stepping out of line then I wouldn't have a problem with them being told. We can pretty much tell 100% that another member would do it nicely and politely. I have no problem with that.

We keep banging on about standards because that's the very foundation of dMw and why long-term members stay.

Personally, I am reticent about giving them their own channel because they shouldn't *need* their own channel. Some childish enthusiasm is one thing but if it becomes irritating to others in that channel then really they need to be told in the same way that we'd tell anyone else.

We've always welcomed people or all ages and we've never imposed any age restrictions on the server. Most of the time it's worked well and the few occasions over the years when it hasn't we've made it clear.

Yes your children are welcome to come and play here - it's *your* community as much as anyone else's but they have to have the maturity, respect and consideration that goes with it.

The LAN does have an age restriction and it's for a couple of reasons. Firstly, the hotel has an 18+ room booking policy, secondly we'd be in loco parentis for any guests under 18 and we don't want the associated hassle that brings under the Children Act 1990. Finally, and the one which swung it for us is that some of the activities that go down at the LAN are most assuredly for over 18's (that's got you wondering hasn't it :norty:). Yes, if you're a parent bringing along a child it's legally it's different but we can't make that distinction.

With regards to tags and the like it's really down to the GL to decide and it's something we/they can discuss. We'll report back on that. However The tag is *not* an identifier as to who may or may not be a member of dMw. That's not its purpose and never has been.

As always, feel free to respond, rebuke and revile :)

lionheart
21st February 2011, 09:00 PM
Nice post Pen.

RizZy
21st February 2011, 10:20 PM
I've got no problem with having the kids on TS with us, they make no more noise & talk just about the same amount of nonsense as the rest of us, & the only thing I've noticed that changes is the language that's used by the rest of us when the jnr's are on, saving the more adult waffle for when there not on.

Liberator
21st February 2011, 11:46 PM
It's disturbing to find me not being dark and disturbing on TS, but that's what happens to me when the younger members are on.






I cut myself instead.

Gone_Away
22nd February 2011, 12:36 AM
It's disturbing to find me not being dark and disturbing on TS, but that's what happens to me when the younger members are on.

I cut myself instead.

Lib.. Seek Help.. immediately...

Gone_Away
22nd February 2011, 12:51 AM
Guys, I echo Pens words. More specifically:

Jnr Channel:

Not necessary.. While we can all apreciate them being young this is "big boy" gaming and they are excitable little chaps so they will chatter on a bit more than necessary. Not too much more than Sulky does in Arma 2 I imagine. :narnar:

One of the great things about this community is mutual respect and politeness. If a dMw junior is carrying on too much, they should be politely told to keep the chatter down and not a "play by play" of what they are doing / seeing. Remember that this is a learning environment and these are young gamers. If we tell them nicely and politely to calm down our quieten down, they should do so.

Most importantly, dMw standards must apply.

We allow them to play as they have demonstrated maturity and understanding of the "dMw way". Or at the very least they are willing to learn it.

The Tag:

The dMw tag must be earned for each game that we support. While the Game Leader awards the badge at their discression, the standards as set out by the community must apply.

The dMw tag is to be Respected and also Can Be Taken Away.

I like most of the admins and definately the community leaders have worked hard to get here and I'll be damned if I'll make it "easier" for others by letting the standards slip.

Again, giving out tags is down to the GL's decision but remember getting a tag in one game does not give you an open invitation to wear it everywhere and in every game.

One thing the tag is not is a dMw Community Member tag.

While we will always make room for community members and welcome them and expect them in teamspeak, the dMw tag is earned and granted by the Game Leader.

I don't want to cause anyone any offence but if we let the standards slip then we lose what we have worked so hard for.

NF

TwoBad
22nd February 2011, 10:17 AM
Cricky, i didn't quite expect such a big reaction to this, thought it would be a little more yay or nay. However, it is good to hear the views of everyone.

I think i've not been as clear as i could have been.

I love having the Juniors on TS and i would prefer for them to stay at all time on the main channel. My two are very aware of how TS works as we run our own server for home gaming and it was actually their idea for a separate channel. Initially i said no but after two weeks of nagging (as kids do) i said i would post a question about it.

The reason i decided to post is, as i said, a couple of times adult player have said about the amount or loudness of their chat. Maybe they didn't feel they could say anything at the time the Juniors were on. I have no problem with anyone asking my boys to take it down a peg or two.

I also remember one occasion when a Junior was being quite vocal but as they all do trying to be as helpful as they can. One of the adult players asked for ammo and the Junior answered with "I have some, where are you". They continued to ask where are you etc for quite some time with no response. Again, no problem from me but some players could be annoyed at that. As it turned out, the adult play had muted the Junior.
If a dMw junior is carrying on too much, they should be politely told to keep the chatter down and not a "play by play" of what they are doing / seeing. Remember that this is a learning environment and these are young gamers. If we tell them nicely and politely to calm down our quieten down, they should do so..So provided we all do this i see no reason to have a separate channel :D

As for the TAG. Sorry, i wasn't clear about what i was saying at all. I fully understand that the dMw. is a game tag for BC2. I know it can only be earned by playing to the standards expected. I was very pleased to be awarded it and i know i could loose the right to wear it if i fall below the standards expected. My boys also know this is a given privilege which has to be earned. They asked me when they could wear it and i told them in no uncertain terms it would only be awarded to them WHEN they had shown the attributes required, Attitude, Teamwork and Fairplay. But it does identify them as having done that.

As for the LAN, i would never dream of bring kids to it. It is very obviously an adult event. My comment about telling my wife is just a reference to her trying to be funny telling me now that the boys play i can take them and she can have the weekend to her self. My wife and i have lots of fun trying to wind each other up like that all the time. My mum hates it as she thinks we're about to devoice when ever she see us doing it.

So, to summarise my ample ramberlings above. Provided other dMw player are happy to tell the Juniors when they do get a bit too chatty then GREAT! Lets stick with what we have.

Penfold
22nd February 2011, 11:41 AM
Cricky, i didn't quite expect such a big reaction to this

Nps. It only that there's a long and pitted history surrounding this subject. Back in the old days it could literally take years for someone to be invited into 'Charlie' Company and to be allowed to wear a badge. It was a very hierarchical system with clearly defined tiers of membership and you had to be nominated and seconded and then shadowed on the server etc. Admins had to go to 'Admin School' where they had to pass a 'course'. IIRC it took me five years to make Charlie status!

Then we had what I lovingly refer to as Ninja-Gate and we totally restructured everything from the top down and came up with the new system of vertical levels of autonomy. This included things such as Section Admins and Game Leaders and a new much more inclusive style of badges and membership.

The single biggest fear that the Community came back at us was a fear of the dilution of our gaming standards and ethos and the strict guidelines which is so ingrained in us. It makes us who we are and it makes members want to stay with us. It still is.....For example, of the back off this thread alone we've had people saying, for example, "but the very fact a request has been made to move them to another dedicated channel throws up a warning sign that something is not right."

New blood is great, nay, it is vital for us to survive but it's a balance between the old and the new and the wants and needs of the older members and the new generation coming through.

Anyway, on the whole the Community is rightly tolerant and encouraging of 2nd generation players coming through - after all, we're used to having offspring play with their parents - OldBloke+Frenzy, Blunt+Toxteth etc and it's a great and worthwhile thing and long may it continue. Watching kids whip their parents (and everyone else) is hilarious :D.

PS.

Here are a couple of long and boring threads about the latest change and the history and the reiteration of the importance of standards:

http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?28178-New-Management-Structure
http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?25329-Community-Changes

Fazer Erazer
22nd February 2011, 12:15 PM
Although the idea of a separate channel for the juniors in principal is good I think we will miss the chance to mould them in the dMw way and to keep an eye on them. I know that they can at times become overexcited after they have stabbed one of us or noob tubed me in the face and the conversations can be hilarious but that is all part of the fun and when they have been asked by a senior player to calm or quiet down they have always respected that request and followed the rules.

Gone_Away
22nd February 2011, 12:22 PM
Let us not forget the the dMw Juniors are always happy to get the server started in the early part of the evening. We should all be thankful of that..

Perhaps the other GL's might want to consider roping in a few for their servers??

DuVeL
22nd February 2011, 12:56 PM
@Twobad, I did once have a small rundown with one of the younger people and had to mute him as his comms were quit loud and such (and high pitched), I've asked him several times to quiet it down a bit and at that time he didn't so I had to mute him.
I've allways played by sound but due to him talking to much I couldn't play and he told me to just turn my headset lower (which was allready at it's lowest setting). This has been solved though.

For the rest, they are good fun to play with and should they have their own channel, I wouldn't mind but I hope for the beginning of the evenings when I'm on also they'll join the normal channel.

TwoBad
22nd February 2011, 01:00 PM
Let us not forget the the dMw Juniors are always happy to get the server started in the early part of the evening. We should all be thankful of that..
I know i am as a couple of times recently i've been on there for up to an hour before someone has joined me. However, when De Blob stabbed me the other day when it was just me, him and a public on, i had to put up with the step by step recount for several days as he told everyone else in the house and anyone who came to the front door! (I still have the echo of "I stabbed my dad!" running round in my head even now). But i think that a price worth paying :D

Tutonic
22nd February 2011, 01:02 PM
My two cents:

I don't mind having the young-uns in our TS channels, they're really rather well behaved if a little exciteable, but they're kids - what do you expect?

If they feel uncomfortable chatting in the main channels then by all means give them something seperate to use, but we should never ask someone to leave a channel just because they're a little loud/chatty. It's not like they're being rude/abusive. Come back after 9pm if it really bothers you that much.

At the end of the day, they're only going to follow the example we set to them. They can't learn to be 'better' deadmen if they're hanging out alone in their own channel. We should aim to be as inclusive as possible, providing they meet our own community standards.

TwoBad
22nd February 2011, 01:07 PM
Don't think it was you DuVel (could be wrong i guess). I certainly don't remember any conversation between the junior and adult player about being loud. But as i said, so long as ppl are happy to tell the young ones then great.

sulky_uk
22nd February 2011, 01:50 PM
While we can all apreciate them being young this is "big boy" gaming and they are excitable little chaps so they will chatter on a bit more than necessary. Not too much more than Sulky does in Arma 2 I imagine. :narnar:
NF

Im the quietest on the server...when there is nobody else there


Aside from that i have a 15 yr old that wants to play arma 2 and L4D with us but i have told him that he will have to wait until im happy that he is mature enough (he laughed at me when i said that and said "dad you act like a 10 yr old sometimes").
Aside from that it is parents discretion and if people feel that the young uns are making too much noise, and if the parents are dmw members could we not quietly say to the parent "hey little johnny was a bit loud last night can you ask him to be a bit gentler on peoples ears". As long as it is put in a good way i dont think the young un concerned will take it badly.

keep them in the main channels so they dont feel like they are kids..... yeah that makes sense in my head

TwoBad
22nd February 2011, 02:07 PM
If they feel uncomfortable chatting in the main channels then by all means give them something seperate to use, but we should never ask someone to leave a channel just because they're a little loud/chatty.
I've had to say to mine a couple of times now just to calm it down a little. I think the reason they asked me to see about a channel for them is that they didn't want to annoy anyone not that they feel uncomfortable. Believe me, they absolutely love playing with you guys, particularly when they've just pwned one of us!

I will chat to them tonight before they go on and explain to them why they wont be getting their own channel and why. I will also reiterate that they should know when they are stating to get a little loud or too chatty and if they don't, that one of you will give 'em a nudge

Gone_Away
23rd February 2011, 12:33 AM
Problem solved.. pew pew

TwoBad
23rd February 2011, 10:11 AM
Problem solved.. pew pew
Don't think it was ever a problem, just something which was asked and discussed :D

Anyway, the fact they asked if they had been ok last night (as some of you know) once they had finished playing is a good sign.

King
25th February 2011, 06:07 PM
I like to have them around, and yes they sometimes can be loud.
But aslong as they do THE thing like they should, they are welcome by me.
And as talled they Often are the first ones on our server.
I say welcome them, and if they are to loud just tell them.
We can do with some young blood.

Penfold
25th February 2011, 09:09 PM
Can we please draw a line under this?

No one is saying that we don't want Members' children playing or anything like that. We just said that it shouldn't be necessary to ostracise them into their own TS channel. :)

Gone_Away
26th February 2011, 03:13 AM
Agreed.. thread closed.