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  1. #1

    When I was just a little boy - one decade on...

    So, a long time ago a very grumpy @Benny posted a thread here:
    https://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/show...t-a-little-boy

    with quotes like
    Has the axis of evil released a chemical weapon driving apathy and lack of common sense in everyone under 30*? (

    Kids (<30) of today...I hope they get Darwin'd real soon.
    Cue lots of "its not us it's everyone else" type rants - so I thought it would be interesting to see how we all feel these days? Do those opinions still hold true? Has ten years softened our thoughts? Or are we still as angry and disappointed in our fellow humans as ever? Did Penfold really start up a business entirely employing "MILFs"?

    Kicking things off for my part - I'm still convinced that apathy and incompetence rule - but having grown older, better paid and less enthusiastic I've taken the simpler option of lowering my standards and joining in, rather than burn out fighting against it

  2. #2
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    Unfortunately I wasn't around for the original thread, but i'll chip in here.

    I've had a growing suspicion for ages about the 'Me First' culture spreading, and it appears to be getting worse as of late. I don't want to get bogged down in individual topics or areas, but everyone is showing signs of it - and not just the under 30's too! It was apparent when I was working in my non-career roles that people didn't care about the work they were doing, that's fine, it's not an important job. Fortunately, work-wise, I don't really see this. I put the effort in as best as I can though, trying projects and things in my own time to try and improve myself. I have to admit though, it's hard in recent months.
    "Forewarned is forearmed"

  3. #3
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    Oh Twig, you've opened Bendora's Box. I'll have to chew on this and respond because I'm a little busy doing exactly what I said 10 years ago The issues in no particular order are attention span, lack of perspective driven by media misrepresentation and and a sense of entitlement driven by a successful generation of Gen-X people on the back of the changes that have swept the world over the last 50 years.

    I may be back to elaborate, which I will do in a much more eloquent fashion and account for the exceptions to the rule of which there are many. The main difference is I don't blame people any more, they are a product of their environment as we all are.
    ===============
    Master of maybe

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Benny View Post
    Oh Twig, you've opened Bendora's Box. I'll have to chew on this and respond because I'm a little busy doing exactly what I said 10 years ago The issues in no particular order are attention span, lack of perspective driven by media misrepresentation and and a sense of entitlement driven by a successful generation of Gen-X people on the back of the changes that have swept the world over the last 50 years.

    I may be back to elaborate, which I will do in a much more eloquent fashion and account for the exceptions to the rule of which there are many. The main difference is I don't blame people any more, they are a product of their environment as we all are.
    Will look forward to the eloquence Benny!

    Interesting times at the moment, you'd think with the current climate that people would be determined to improve their performance to keep their jobs - but seems to be the opposite with people instead taking the opportunity to deliver less. I'm in secure and well paid employment these days, yet at least one person from our division jumps every week for greener grass in the private sector, maybe being a Dad has made me more risk averse, but that's the last thing I'd be doing right now. We shall see how it all pans out...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Benny View Post
    Oh Twig, you've opened Bendora's Box. I'll have to chew on this and respond because I'm a little busy doing exactly what I said 10 years ago The issues in no particular order are attention span, lack of perspective driven by media misrepresentation and and a sense of entitlement driven by a successful generation of Gen-X people on the back of the changes that have swept the world over the last 50 years.

    I may be back to elaborate, which I will do in a much more eloquent fashion and account for the exceptions to the rule of which there are many. The main difference is I don't blame people any more, they are a product of their environment as we all are.
    A sobering thought is that none of us are the same people we were back then. Our own views, opinions, values and beliefs are what shape our world views. And if those same views, opinions, values and beliefs have changed over the last decade, which they surely have, then i would argue so to have our views. It may be as much that we have changed as the world has changed. Which it most definitely has.

    So maybe that media misrepresentation could be countered by the fact that this new generation don't need to see the world through the warped lens of western media any more. Through the wider internet they can go speak to the actual people experiencing the actual events which I used to read about in cripplingly biased newspapers or see family friendly and jaundiced versions of on the BBC.

    We saw the ugly world through a 'civilised' privileged western lens and were told what to think about it and to be happy it wasn't happening to us (something that traditional media still tries to do long after they've totally lost any relevance). The problem young people have today is that rather than getting spoon fed one (probably factless) world view, as we were, they are being bombarded with a multitude. Somewhere in there is the truth. The problem young people have today is the problem we all have. How do we find out what true is?

    Young peoples experiences aren't the same as the ones we grew up with, as ours weren't the same as our parents. So it seems reasonable that each generation will be shaped differently, face different problems and develop different beliefs. And that's the problem. No one likes a different belief system. They are scary and dangerous. Every conflict ever fought in human history was done so over a differing of belief systems. We're hardwired to be scared and distrustful of 'other' beliefs. They are a threat to our own beliefs. And our own beliefs are the glue that binds our chosen society together. And our societies are what keeps us, as social animals who need to live in stable social groups, alive and kicking. Or they have instinctively for most of human history. We're hardwired to be distrustful or 'other' belief systems.

    Each generation is moulded by an different and ever changing environment and unsurprisingly develops different beliefs to the previous generation. I'm sure ancient Egyptians bemoaned their bloody useless teenage offspring. So for me it's comforting that in at least some things humans will never change

  6. #6
    OMFG - do not open the second bottle of win and then go check the forums - mindless drivel will ensue!

  7. #7
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    Love it Smilo! Encore!!!

    So to elaborate on my points. In my role I have the dubious pleasure in both this job and previous to have quite a few poor souls work for me. In that pool there are consistently 15% that are exceptional. I would hire them in a heartbeat into any role. There are 15% that are blunty, ****. The middle bunch I find intriguing.

    It's reflective of my age that the majority in the mid and entry level roles are younger than me. There are exceptions who invariably sit squarely in the 'do a good job, but never excel' grey man mould.

    Of those in that middle tier, day after day I attend stand up calls, I listen to team meetings and I never hear people do anything to put themselves out. Pre and during lockdown. The equation always appears to be 'give me more money and I'll do better' rather than show me how good you are. As you would expect the payrises and bonuses go to those that excel without being grabby. I have never, in my entire working life, asked for a payrise. Not once. I've worked arguably <swearword> hard. I've ruined holidays, I've lost weekend after weekend and pulled overnight sessions to make sure what I do is done well and on time, every time. At it has served me well, but it comes at cost.

    And, more to the point and perhaps a reflection on my last point, more beautifully put by Smilo, todays youth have grown up plugged in, switched on and permanently wired to enough data to fill hundreds of times my childhood. Attention span is critically impacted with the proliferation of available entertainment/input meaning they don't have to 'wait' for anything. Immediacy is everything.

    In parallel, and this also impacts me, we also see people online, on insta, on the news who've made millions for living a life, playing games, showing off cars, houses and lifestyles that can only be achieved by a tiny percentage of people, yet we see them everywhere. Influencers and content producers have an audience they've never had of people who dream of better.

    How do I motivate someone to work another hour in a cold grey office when their hero is prancing around in Thailand, driving Ferrari's and living the dream. When I was working at a lower level, I put it in because I wanted to excel, then I spent it all on beer....on repeat for years. I fear for my job every day, and I'm the bloody director, I'm perfectly safe with all three companies but it doesn't stop me working hard every single day.

    In short Twig....I'm jealous, I want my youth again, I'd do better......and damn, wasn't there a but....seriously forum section somewhere round here?
    ===============
    Master of maybe

  8. #8
    Ha, I know what you mean, I look back now at the opportunities I had at University that I merrily ****ed up the wall, like a fully equipped workshop with 24 hour access that I never even entered, the lab days where I dashed off the bare minimum so I could get to the bar at 2pm rather than 4pm. The dream would be to have my current levels of cash, with the time and access to University levels of responsibility. Instead it has taken me 4 days to be able to get enough time away from small child, wife, work etc to get round to unblocking a sink in a downstairs bathroom.

    Of those in that middle tier, day after day I attend stand up calls, I listen to team meetings and I never hear people do anything to put themselves out. Pre and during lockdown. The equation always appears to be 'give me more money and I'll do better' rather than show me how good you are.

    Ha - I'm guilty of that these days, been burned too many times going above and beyond, and have it all taken away so now I do my job, arrive on time, leave on time, and am a lot less engaged/productive at work, but am far happier in my personal life, so works for me!

    As a more general point I think the nature of work has changed as well, with automation, Tech 4.0 or whatever you want to call it, the jobs that directly drive satisfaction are getting further apart, and workforces are constantly in flux as progression within companies doesn't seem to be a thing anymore, so people leave to find other opportunities instead. It's been years since I actually was on a project where from start to finish 90% of the team were the same, the thing was delivered and we were able to turn around with some pride and go "we did that". Now I'm working across 14 projects, the colleagues on the project team stay max 18 months before leaving. One project is on its 3rd PM, 2nd APM and various other roles have changed, all within a 3 year period of what should be a 5 year project. Funnily enough, its late and overbudget, and scope is now being culled. Where's the pride in "delivering" that when you just happened to be the one holding it at the end? Likewise how many jobs/projects that you do these days would you be proud enough to tell someone at a dinner party when they say "so what do you do?"

    Totally agree on the inflated expectations and it has only got worse. I now manage graduates, and the lack of initiative for the most part is stunning. You set a task, then its 400 questions, "Shall I use this software or that software, shall I use this data or that data, is this font ok, is this format ok?" and checking back every step of the way. The worst point reached was a few weeks ago when I assigned a task to a grad that takes me 90 minutes. It took the graduate 3 days, and has used 3 hours of my time checking and explaining. Yet in our 1-2-1s the grads give it "I don't have enough work, this isn't interesting" etc - without understanding if they can't demonstrate competency in the BAU stuff, they won't get given the interesting stuff.

    Ha, I think this topic came about in one of the periods when "But seriously" got closed for being too political and people all got a bit arsey with one another - happy times

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by smilodon View Post
    OMFG - do not open the second bottle of win and then go check the forums - mindless drivel will ensue!
    I dunno, it was quite poetic in a way

  10. #10
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    It's such a big topic, isn't always the way that we don't know what we've got until it's gone and that goes for opportunity as well as tangibles. It feels like people would often rather spend time telling me why something is hard rather than just get it done. Reading a really interesting book at the moment which talks about the automatic and intentional brain approaches (How to have a good day). Worth a read if you have the time ;)

    I completely agree the nature of work has changed, and I'm guilty of not changing with it. That said there are days when I love my job. I revel in making things better and seeing the progress. There are days when I sit in another tired meeting wishing abject misery upon colleagues!
    ===============
    Master of maybe

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